Who's better Kobe Or Lebron? The Great Debate

Here's a debate I took part in over on ThaCorner. Me and the homie Cutthroat debated the topic of who is the better basketball player, Kobe Bryant or Lebron James. I argued for Lebron, Cutthroat argued for Kobe, tell me what you think


Topic - Kobe or Lebron. Arguably the 2 best overall players in the NBA today. So the topis is this...which player would be a better choice to start your NBA Franchise with and why?

Paul Bearer-
First off let me say that you cant go wrong with either choice. Kobe and Lebron are both great players, but there are many reasons why I would start my team with Lebron James.

There has never been a player like Lebron James, he is a once in 20 year talent. How often do you see a player with a body like Karl Malone, the court sense of Oscar Robertson and ability to play out on the perimeter. 6'8, 260 lbs, ability to get to the rim like no other, draw contact, is able to step outside and knock down the jumper, can set up his own teammates. There really hasn't been a total package of size, skill, and athleticism ever. How could you not want a guy like that on your team. With Lebron there's no telling how far you can go with him, both as a team and him individually. Kobe maybe and probably has hit his peak, Lebron still maybe has a higher ceiling to touch as a player and get better.

Also it has been shown that you can start and build a successful franchise with Lebron. In 2002-03 the Cleveland Cavaliers finished the season 17-65 and won the NBA Lottery and selected Lebron. In the years that followed they went:
35-47 in 2003-04 (18 game improvement), 42-40 in 2004-05 (7 game improvement), 50-32 in 2005-06 (8 game improvement), 50-32 in 2006-07 (0 game improvement, but went to the NBA Finals), 45-37 in 2007-08 (8 game reduction but went to ECF), and 66-16 in 2008-09 (21 win improvement and another ECF appearance).

That's 6 straight seasons over .500, when the Cavs previously posted 5 straight seasons under .500, 2 ECF appearances, 1 ECF title, and 1 Finals appearances. You would have to go back to the Mark Price, Craig Ehlo, Brad Daughtery, Larry Nance days in Cleveland to find that success. And even then they still didn't accomplish what Lebron's Cavs have done. Also Lebron didn't really have a championship or contending team until last year. He's went from having Carlos Boozer and Ricky Davis as his sidekicks to Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes to now finally having Mo Williams and Shaq.

The Cavs went from East doormat to East contender, and that's what Lebron brings. He can transcend a franchise overnight, make a team respectable, and get other players to play alongside of him in order to build a successful team. There's only a handful of players that can make that claim (Jabbar, Robinson, Duncan, Bird). You cannot pass on a player like that, I would pick Lebron in a second and wouldn't think twice


CutThroat

Kobe is obviously the better choice to start a franchise around. Kobe has proven that if you build around him he will deliver multiple championships. He has what is most important in a franchise player and that is the will to win.

Correct me if I’m wrong but Kobe Bryant has 4 rings right? All those stats you threw out about Lebron were nice but lets get to what is truly important. Championships. Like Herm Edwards says, “You play to win the game”, And Win is something Kobe Bryant has done. Lebron for all his height, ability and fancy numbers has yet to deliver a ring. Something Kobe Bryant has done 4 times.
So be my guest and build your franchise around Lebron. While your franchise is contending in the East mine will be winning NBA championships behind our Franchise player…Kobe Bryant.

Kobe is the right choice to build a franchise around because he proved he can win the big game, he can elevate a team and put the team on his back to deliver them to the Promised Land. Good ole’ Kobe “Moses” Bryant never fails and never lets his team down. Kobe is the only choice to build a franchise around. For all Lebron offers he hasn’t offered what is most important to a franchise and that is a championship….Unless you just don’t care about that sort of thing, which I think my opponent, Paul Bearer doesn’t by choosing to build his franchise around Lebron.


Paul Bearer

Cutthroat you are right Kobe has 4 rings, Kobe has been to the promised land, and Kobe has won and Lebron hasn't. But remember Kobe wasn't the focal point or number 1 on the Lakers for 3 of those rings. Shaq was the one who won 3 Finals MVP's. Yes, Kobe did work but at the end of the day who's team was it? It was Shaq's. Kobe had a prime, 7-1, 330 lb, best player in the league crutch to lean on. Lebron hasn't had that luxury.

Lebron has been the man from jumpstreet as an 18 year old rookie and built up a championship-caliber team, Kobe never did that. Once Kobe did become the man, the Lakers went through a 3 year mediocre stretch (34 wins in 2004-05 no playoffs, 45 wins in 2005-06, 1st round playoff exit, 42 wins in 2007-08 1st round playoff exit) until they got Pau Gasol and that rocketed to the Finals. Remember before Kobe was winning that 4th ring, he was on camera in parking lots bashing Andrew Bynum and begging to be traded.

Lebron took the Cavs on his back as an 18 year old prodigy from high school and has led them to only 1 step from the summit. Not only that he's taken some teams far in the playoffs that had no business being in those series. Examples (2007 ECF against Detroit (win), 2007 Finals against SA (loss), 2008 ECF against Boston (7 game loss)).

I care about winning and so I would have no qualms about picking Lebron, like I said he's been to the Finals before and 3 ECF appearances in only 7 years and almost carried the Cavs back to Finals by himself against Boston in 2008. I want that guy on my team who can lead a team deep into the playoffs alone and has shown to be able to do it repeatedly.

The whole rings thing with Kobe is, he's been on better teams than Lebron and had teammates that stepped up for him and performed, Lebron hasn't had that. But since we're not talking about team but individually, the choice is LEbron

CutThroat

The flaw in the "Kobe had shaq" argument you present is the fact that Kobe has won without Shaq. It doesn't matter if Kobe has had better teams, as a franchise owner your job is to surround your franchise player with a championship team. Kobe having a good team around him just means that the ownership was doing they're job. . No player has done it by themselves, did Michael Jordan not win 6 rings because he had help

In addition to delivering championships Kobe bryant has been the face of the league for over a decade. He has been the most identifiable player since Michael Jordan. As a Franchise player Kobe not only wins but he draws crowds and endorsements which means more money and recognition for the franchise.

A franchise player should represent the franchise, win, deliver multiple titles and generate money for the franchise. Kobe does all of those things and he does them better than any player especially ones named Lebron James.

Also lets not forget that Lebron has had his opportunities to win titles. His inability to win a title only demonstrates that he isn't capable of making his team better when it counts. Did the Cavaliers not go into the playoffs with one of the NBA's best records? That tells me that Lebron had a team capable of winning it all, Lebron fell short. He wasn’t able to make his team better and carry them to a championship like Kobe was able too at 31 years old coming off leading the United States Olympic Team to a gold medal.

Kobe is just a born leader, first he leads this great country of ours to a gold medal and then he leads his franchise to their 4th title under his tenure. Kobe is the choice to build a franchise around.

Paul Bearer

I admitted to Kobe winning without Shaq, I said that he did win a 4th ring. But I also mentioned Kobe's struggles without Shaq and before Pau. Kobe was struggling just to make the playoffs and win a series, if Chris Wallace (the Grizzlies GM) has common sense and actually values his franchise and doesn't trade Gasol to LA where is Kobe? He's still playing for a fringe playoff team and asking a trade.

As far as face of the league, they were putting Cavs games on national TV as soon as Cleveland won the lottery, Lebron had NBA stars watching his high school games, Lebron has been that guy for the NBA since 2003, remember Kobe was the black sheep of the league for a 2 year period (sexual assault case, bruised reputation). Lebron was a NBA global icon from jump.

Lebron is his franchise, he was the best Cavalier player after 3 seasons. Kobe might not even be the best Laker of all time. Who watched Cavs games before he got there? Who cared about the Cavs before he got there? Can you name me 5 players from the Cavs roster in the season before Lebron got there?

Yes, Lebron has had opportunities to win a title and he's come up short yes. But he's performed incredibly in those series, yes a great player makes his teammates better but his teammates still have to perform. Where was Mo Williams against Orlando? Delonte West? Where was everybody against Boston in '08? Against SA in '07? You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink. Lebron has taken his team there, now they have to step up for their star, you can't knock a player for doing all in his power to win but his cast doesnt support.

You say Kobe was a born leader, but it took 8 years before Kobe finally did lead and became a leader on his team. Lebron did it from the very beginning and has done well at it, and remember he's still young, he's only 24. Sky's the limit for Lebron

CutThroat

Lebron James to this day is compared to Kobe. No matter what Lebron does he will be compared to Kobe Bryant, not the other way around. For all the lime light he receives he still has to share with Kobe Bryant. What makes who would be the better franchise player an easy decision is what separates Lebron and Kobe. The two are separated by 4 championships, about 12,000 points and legendary 12 year career.

No question Lebron is great and has the potential to be even greater. But potential can go unfulfilled. I’ll take Kobe Bryant, the seasoned veteran who has already done it for my franchise. He has proven he wins rings. There is no guarantee that Lebron will ever win a ring, that he will match the career Kobe has had or that he will continue to improve with age like Kobe has.

My opponent is playing the “what-if game” or the “he could be game”. I on the other hand am using the “he’s proven it” already approach. What Lebron can do for a franchise doesn’t mean anything until he has actually done it. Kobe has proven what he will bring to a franchise. He has shown that he can and will deliver championship titles as well as a great all around career.

As great as Lebron is he still has several flaws in his game. He still doesn’t have the last shot ability that Kobe possesses. Lebron has uplifted the Cavs to success they’ve never experienced. But Kobe was tasked with the responsibility to return a franchise to past glory. The pressure on Kobe was immense. The bigger the moment the bigger Kobe’s game.

Lebron has come up short too many times in the playoffs and in his career. You want Lebron to be your franchise player, be my guess. Just be warned that your franchise will always come up short, just like Lebron.

Kobe is a champion, a proven one at that. He has proven he can win with any nucleus. Stats don’t mean anything if the franchise isn’t delivering championships…the one thing every player dreams about, every franchise salivates over and every fan pays to see won. Choose Kobe as your championship player and your choosing a championship franchise, dare I say dynasty. Choose Lebron as your franchise player and your choosing a franchise that will be good but always will come up short when it really counts.